An Interview With the Herald of the Apocalypse
Is artificial intelligence about to take your job? According to Daniel Kokotajlo, the executive director of the A.I. Futures Project, that should be the least of your worries. Kokotajlo was once a researcher for OpenAI, but left after losing confidence in the company’s commitment to A.I. safety. This week, he joins Ross to talk about “AI 2027,” a series of predictions and warnings about the risks A.I. poses to humanity in the coming years, from radically transforming the economy to developing armies of robots.
03:59 - What effect could AI have on jobs?06:45 - But wait, how does this make society richer?10:08 - Robot plumbers and electricians14:53 - The geopolitical stakes18:58 - AI’s honesty problem22:43 - The fork in the road27:55 - The best case scenario29:38 - The power structure in an AI-dominated world32:32 - What AI leaders think about this power structure38:30 - AI's hallucinations and limitations43:45 - Theories of AI consciousness47:05 - Is AI consciousness inevitable?50:59 - Humanity in an AI-dominated world(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)
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Interesting Times with Ross Douthat
The first draft of our future. Mapping the new world order through interviews and conversations. Every Thursday, from New York Times Opinion.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
- No. of episodes: 12
- Latest episode: 2025-05-29
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